I don’t try to mold my students into a “w” or “inverted w”. Arm action is something that is largely unique to each pitcher, and it’s hard to alter it in a way that doesn’t throw off a pitcher’s total delivery and ability to be effective. I do, however, prefer for students to remove the ball from their gloves facing third base, as this orientation will help prevent the arm from wrapping too far down and behind the body, which causes inconsistent arm slot upon landing. I know O’Leary preaches this as a way to promote a “w”, and it’s something I think has value, even if it doesn’t convert someone completely away from the “inverted w.”

I personally take the ball out facing third and my wrist vertical, but then let my body do what it wants to do. I’ve found that to be the most effective delivery for myself, irregardless of the category that puts me in.

Thanks for the thoughtful comment.

Also, I understand that you are a pithing coach. Knowing this information, do you teach your pupils to pitch with the inverted W? If so, you may be (I am not accusing you of anything) biased in your views.

Anyway, I would just like to share the information I have come across with you. I hope this shines some new light on your argument.

Grover Cleveland – No
Jim Bunning – No
Steve Carlton – No
Jack Chesbro – No
John Clarkson –
Dizzy dean – No
Don Drysdale – Yes
Dennis Eckersly – No
Bob Feller – No
Rollie Fingers – No
Whitey Ford – No
Bob Gibson – No
Catfish Hunter – No
Fergie Jenkins – No
Sandy Koufax – No
Bob Lemon – No
Jim Palmer – No
Gaylord Perry – No
Robin Roberts – No
Nolan Ryan – No
Tom Seaver – No
Warren Spahn – No
Don Sutton – No
Dazzy Vance – No
Rube Waddell – No

My article was extremely straightforward, and you’re arguing to me way beyond the scope of it. Honestly, if you read my post, there is nothing to argue – his language is absolutely too strong for his claims, his claims are based on improper research methodology, and he cites no research. Logically, it’s garbage, no doubt about it. Like I said in my article, I don’t claim to be an expert on the role of pitching mechanics on injuries, nor do I advocate for kids out there to change their mechanics based on my opinions. Nearly everything in human performance is based on educated guesses and past success. Nothing works for everybody, and I’m not nearly arrogant enough to tell you what you should teach your kids.

Ask any orthopedist or physical therapist if the inverted “W” position is impinging the rotator cuff and creating more of chance for an injury. I have some background in biomechanics, I have looked at hundreds of slow motion pitching clips, I played baseball, and I am a physical therapist so I probably am more qualified to discuss body mechanics or pitching mechanics than you. You state that Greg Maddux has nice pitching mechanics and I agree with you, but how do YOU know that? My point was that All those great pitchers that I mentioned use very similar pitching mechanics and that does translate into how much and when specific muscles are “fired” and timing.

Yes, major league pitchers all use their core muscles, but some make better use of these muscles. Some also create a larger hip/shoulder separation so that they are relatively using more of these muscles than their arms. Why do think Tim Lincecum can throw so hard for such a little guy? It’s not because he has stronger arms than anyone else, it is because he makes better use of his mechanics, flexibility, and larger muscle groups.

So when you say Chris O’leary’s argument is worthless, I will have to disagree with you. We should at least make use of the research that we have, even if some of it is correlational right now. Some of his information suggests to me that he has done his homework and checked out several professionals and biomechanical studies before have provided his advice. He has been correct in many of his predictions on pitchers and I don’t believe he has been proven wrong either. I am using some of his information, along with what I already know to teach my own kids so that their chances of getting injured may be reduced.

Second, you’ve completely missed the point. O’Leary’s comparative argument is fatally flawed. Sure, Greg Maddux has nice pitching mechanics, but just because Greg had a great, injury-free career does NOT indicate that his mechanics play any causal role in his or anyone else’s injury status. The fact of the matter is, if you want to say anything about the role pitching mechanics play in injury, then you need to take a very large sample of pitchers and compare them to themselves as well as the major league average for injuries, etc. etc. (I explained this all in my article, which it appears you largely skimmed).

Third, how do you know Nolan Ryan, Roger, Greg and Randy use their “Core” muscles more than other pitchers? Let me answer: you don’t. That’s just anecdotal. There is not a pitcher out there who throws 90+ who doesn’t use his large muscles, rotate his hips before his shoulders, etc. etc.

Fourth, “stress” on the rotator cuff? Stress is pretty common on the rotator cuff, as every pitch causes it, no matter the mechanics. Stress will be there no matter how you throw, and in large, large amounts. That’s just the nature of the motion.

Please, email or fax me all of this research that you are quoting, I would love to see it. Chances are, it either doesn’t exist or doesn’t prove anything at all, much like the musings of Chris O’Leary, which I very clearly explained are flawed and anecdotal. The best research in the baseball injury field is on GIRD, which is one of the most widely agreed upon correlational precursors to injury, is still only CORRELATIONAL.